“Y’see, there’s a reason that black is a catch-all phrase for people of African descent in the U.S. Because of slavery, most of us don’t know what countries we come from. Many of us don’t get the luxury of being proud of a distinct historical and cultural background outside of African”

I’m well aware why African Americans don’t claim a specific country, instead using the continent of Africa. It’s a different discussion altogether, but I don’t like anyone hyphenating “American” regardless of their skin pigment. I’m an American, not a European-American, or an Irish-American. Just American. Knowing where I come from is not a “luxury.” Its irrelevant.

“So yeah, I might wonder why you chose white, rather than a distinct ethnicity or nationality like most other white folks chose to be proud of.”

Yeah, and I wonder why you chose black, rather than a distinct ethnicity like… African? You can’t have it both ways. You’re not proud of being African. You’re proud because you’re black. The banners on the right side of your page are dominated by a color, not an ethnicity. “Black and Missing” and “Proud Black Voter” and “Women of color” and “Blogging while brown” are the phrases on your site. You may ALSO be proud of Africa, but don’t pretend like I’m the one who brought up color over country. Its insulting to my intelligence.

“We’ve been constantly told, for friggin’ centuries, that we should not be proud of ourselves because of the way we look.”

I am so sick of hearing about the past. Every racist comment or bad behavior by a non-white is blamed on white people. I don’t give a crap what someone told your great-great-great grandfather. “Civil” rights activists whine and moan constantly about being persecuted for centuries and being victims of racism. Its like they think white people walk through life without a care in the world, without some history they can complain about. Professor Gates said “whitey” in his application to Yale, not “people of European descent who mistreated others.” You wanna hear about my Irish ancestors? How many decades do I get to complain about the way my people were treated? I’m also part Cherokee. Where’s my affirmative action?

“This does not happen with white folks. Do you honestly think that if the scenario you describe happened that those 6 white kids would find themselves facing the majority of their lives in prison? No way in hell. If you think 6 white kids would have been treated the same way as those black kids, you’re just not paying attention.”

Let me get this straight… you’re saying that if 6 white kids beat up a black kid for being black in 2009, they wouldn’t be severely punished? You have to be joking. Hate crime legislation tacks 8 extra years onto the maximum 7 year sentence of battery. I’m obviously not “paying attention” to the same people you pay attention to. You want me to run the numbers on how many hate crimes black people are charged with compared to white people? You’re paying attention to the wrong demagogues.

And now onto Mr. Stoller’s comments…

“Being proud and white is extremely different.”

NO IT ISN’T. Do you hear yourself? Pride derived from skin color is childish. Pride from ethnicity is fine, but not from skin color. Barack is treated like he’s “down with the struggle” despite being raised by rich white people, living in Hawaii and going to Ivy league schools. You have got to be kidding me.

“What exactly is good about whiteness as an institution?”

Whiteness isn’t an institution; its a skin pigment. Are you implying that blackness as an “institution” is better than whiteness? How about America as an institution? I know everyone things we invented slavery and racism, but we didn’t. Believe it or not, it was the big thing back then. We’re just noble enough to beat ourselves up about it, while other countries moved on.

“it’s the lack of awareness among white folks of what whiteness is that maintains a system of power and privilege. Racism is power with prejudice. White racism is not the same as discrimination or prejudice from folks in marginalized groups.”

You are spouting nonsense. Racism does not require power. I have heard this crap spouted by others as, I’m guessing, an excuse for non-white people to be unashamedly, publicly racist. Claiming that white racism is somehow worse than black racism is hypocritical nonsense. I didn’t make anyone sit in the back of the bus or get into a college based on my white privilege. In fact, thanks to affirmative action, I probably had more trouble getting into college than I should have. A “lack of awareness about whiteness” is THE GOAL. You are spouting Jeremiah-Wright-esque propaganda that solves absolutely nothing. It merely gives non-whites an excuse.

“By the way, what if Kevin was deaf?”

Deaf ears can’t hear things. The metaphor is neither offensive nor inaccurate. Do you think you’re noble for some half-assed attempt to defend deaf people right after explaining why white people deserve none? Do you think deaf people require your help?

“Who gets to say what is and/or is not an acceptable saying?”

No one thanks to the first amendment. And you’re an idiot for bringing it up in this discussion. Save your meaningless pontification for someone who doesn’t see right through you.

““Colored” isn’t really a term that people of color use or identify with”

Tell Kevin that. I was quoting him every time I used it. I used quotation marks the first time. My apologies for not using subsequent times. I don’t give a shit about skin pigmentation.

“White folks like to decide what is and/or is not real racism.”

Racism has a simple definition. People of all races like to define it in a way that fits their ideological template. Making a judgment about someone based on the color of their skin is racist. Even if you’re not white. I haven’t decided anything. The definition of racism was decided long ago, but people keep trying to modify it to their liking.

Your own comments are racist. You refer to white people as the metaphorical “sword asking it’s victim if it’s sharp enough.” So your argument is because I have paler skin than Kevin, that makes me the “sword?” Are you insane, or just so brainwashed that you don’t see the nonsense in your assertions? Your metaphor is based on the assumption that white people are victimizing non-white people. That is blatantly racist. I have victimized no one, and some sort of cockamamie, pseudo-intellectual explanation of institutional racism doesn’t change that.

You two are full of pre-conceptions that appear to make you incapable of seeing your own racism while debating me. I have no prejudice towards anyone because their skin is darker than me, and neither do millions of other “white folk” that have grown up in a country where it is near impossible to become a racist if you own a television. The racial divide is almost non-existent, but is maintained solely by the very people who claim to oppose it. There are no white groups running around stoking racism. Only the NAACP and La Raza and other such groups. White people have for the most part moved on, while a select number of non-white people continue to fan the fire under the guise of being entitled due to past transgressions. I will not sit quietly while someone lectures me about racism I did not contribute to nor participate in. “Historical context” as Stoller put it does not give a black person the right to discriminate against me. And claiming it has anything to do with ancestry is nonsense. You are flat-out lying. Barack Obama is half descended from white slave owners, and half-Kenyan; NOT AFRICAN-AMERICAN. While Kevin does not have the “luxury” of knowing which African country his ancestors come from, Barack does, so when African-Americans act as though he is part of the club, they illustrate the real adjective in this whole debate: Black. Don’t talk to me about African pride or Irish pride or any other country. Its dark-skin entitlement… plain and simple. Some white American treated some non-white American badly once upon a time, and so I have to apologize to non-white people who get to complain about something I had nothing to do with.

ON TOP OF ALL THAT, the NAACP and BET have awards shows where white people aren’t eligible for most, if not all, the awards. This childish, racist nonsense is so condescending to black people, I can’t even describe it. Denzel and Cuba and Halle and Morgan and others did not need a special awards show that excluded whites to reach the heights of their industry. They did not need the Academy to exclude white people to win their Oscars. On their own. With no asterisk. Every day those racist awards exist is another day you tell a certain percentage of black people that they need their own show in order to celebrate success. I find it insulting.

Good day to both of you,
Dan

By the way, what if Kevin was deaf? Your comment would have been read by someone with a hearing impairment. Why use deafness as way to negatively describe the fact that someone might ignore your comment? I know that it’s just a saying, but who gets to say what is and/or is not an acceptable saying? Usually it comes back to that whole power differential thing…more ableist folks who can hear getting to use deafness in a negative-ridden phrase.

PS: “Colored” isn’t really a term that people of color use or identify with…it’s more of derogatory word that white people used to use quite often. Sort of a “we have the power, therefore we get to label you” type thing…

PPS: I think it might be a good idea for you to read my post on real racism. It speaks to the fact that all too often, white folks like to decide what is and/or is not real racism. It’s like a sword asking it’s victim if it’s sharp enough….

That said, I followed your link in my post. In all honesty, I meant to link to a different post. I must’ve hit the wrong tab and in my haste linked to you. (Damn, that’s two for two. I gotta stop drinking and blogging). Sloppy on my part. So I apologize. I did have some issues with your post, to be sure, but the one I meant to link too did actually try to tie Sharpton and both Jacksons into this whole thing. Now I gotta find it again. I will correct the post to reflect that.

Now, on to other things: First, I have no problem whatsoever with anyone showing ethnic pride. Proud to be Irish? Great! Proud to be Italian, or German, or Polish? Great! Hell, we can sit down and you can tell me all about your people’s history and culture and I’ll gladly listen. Y’see, there’s a reason that black is a catch-all phrase for people of African descent in the U.S. Because of slavery, most of us don’t know what countries we come from. Many of us don’t get the luxury of being proud of a distinct historical and cultural background outside of African, and since Africa is a rather large continent with a lot of very different countries, the term African is just as specific as as European (i.e. really not that much). That’s at least how I see it. So yeah, I might wonder why you chose white, rather than a distinct ethnicity or nationality like most other white folks chose to be proud of (I’m not talking about the hardcore “white supremacist” types here), but frankly, I think you should be proud of yourself and your heritage. That’s where the whole “proud and black” thing comes from. We’ve been constantly told, for friggin’ centuries, that we should not be proud of ourselves because of the way we look. So really, what’s so wrong with striking back and saying, “No. I AM proud of myself and my heritage”?

As for the Jena Six. I’ve yet to see anyone claim that those boys didn’t deserve to be punished. The problem, however, is that the proposed punishment did not, in any way, fit the crime. That’s what “Free the Jena Six” is all about. THIS is racism 101. Because those black boys weren’t perfect, whatever gets thrown their way is perfectly OK. This does not happen with white folks. Do you honestly think that if the scenario you describe happened that those 6 white kids would find themselves facing the majority of their lives in prison? No way in hell. If you think 6 white kids would have been treated the same way as those black kids, you’re just not paying attention.

My post told Jackson and Sharpton to stop chasing B.S. racism like the Duke Lacrosse case and focus on real racism like the Valley Swim Club. You chose to deliberately misrepresent my post. Implying that I think of anyone as “coloreds” is just wishful thinking on your part. You want to be able to whine and bitch and moan about posts like mine. If mine was the best example of some “ignorant” white guy telling coloreds to shut up, your case is flimsy. I never said anyone had the right to be racist because Sharpton and Jackson won’t shut up and I never told coloreds to shut up about Michael Jackson. Everyone can shout at the top of their lungs racist nonsense. A racist, private swim club can legally turn away black kids, just like any racist, private black organization can turn away white people. In a free country, you are free to be a racist, but don’t pretend one is different from the other. Any organization that turns away people based solely on their skin color is disgustingly racist, and I have no use for them.

If I had a “Proud White Voter” image on my site, you’d call me a racist, and rightly so. You bear the same image proudly.

“Free the Jena Six”…?!?! Some unknown person hangs a rope from a tree, and 6 kids get to beat the shit out of another kid? If someone hangs a white doll from a tree and writes black power on its shirt, do 6 white kids get to beat up the first black kid they encounter? Are they entitled? Whoever put that up on your site is an idiot. I’m fairly sure all this fell on deaf ears… bye.

BTW: There is a petition circulating. Here is the link:

http://www.colorofchange.org/swim/?id=1604-649824

Peace.

I linked to your blog at Miss Incognegro as well too (hover over your name). I make it a point to always link to folks blogs, even when I find their comments via other blogs.