Well, I think that the context of such jokes matters, such that a White person can make such a joke and it would “pass” (even be funny) and Black folks can fail at it as well. A perfect example: Black men putting on “fat suits” and pretending to be the stereotypical large, overbearing Black woman. FAIL.

Can you link to it?

Click on “Sarah Silverman.” That’s the link to the post.

A lot of people in Ilyka’s comment thread find her profound, but she isn’t saying anything I haven’t already heard in my first year Women’s Studies or African-American studies classes.

Fair enough. But you have to agree that some people do need to hear what she’s saying, even if it’s 101 stuff to you and I.

Slightly, but not really off topic: I’ve had a post swirling around in my head on the very issues that you are raising here with regards to Tim Wise (who I link to in the post). I started thinking about it after reading a post at Jack and Jill Politics and the subsequent comments thread praising Tim Wise. Us Black folks love us some Tim Wise. But why? It’s not like he’s saying anything that a zillion other Black folks haven’t been saying forever. And just to flip the script and make it a little more complicated, when I write about womanist/feminist issues, or LGBT issues, am I speaking from a place of experience that I don’t have? Where do we draw the line between being good allies and appropriation, I guess is what I’m wondering here? I don’t have the answer, but your comments are well taken, for what it’s worth. I, personally, don’t think that Ilyka (or Tim Wise for that matter) is “speaking from a place of Black experience,” but you’ve given me something to think about.

And really, Danielle. YOU”RE NOT THE ENEMY! Sorry for yelling, but it’s beyond me why you think I would “rip [your] fucking face off in the comments,” especially if we have a ton of things in common. My archives are deceptive. I’ve been blogging for quite a long time now. I had a bad experience with a database migration and had to delete three years of blogging. I’ve had many, many people come here that deserved to get their faces ripped off. You most certainly are not one of them. I’m at the point now where if I thought you were here to cause trouble or were arguing in bad faith, I would have simply told you to stfu and blocked your comments. Yes, I can be harsh at times. I’ve been in a few too many blog wars over the years; but really, we slightly disagree about one damn thing and you’ve got me ripping your face off? Well, for what it’s worth, you’re welcome here. Please agree or disagree with me in comments as much as you want. I’d rather have someone disagree with me, and give me something to think about than some of the hateful shit that’s been posted on these very pages.

Agreed.

But my point is that why are these jokes “passable” (if not funny) when a black person references them, but horrifying when a white person does? Why is there not a general “we find this horrifying” standard? I feel the same about using the N word - I fucking hate it when I hear white people using it, but I hate it MORE when I hear black people using it. Why would you reclaim such a hateful term, no matter WHAT your skin color?

go read Harriet’s Daughter.

I have. A lot of people in Ilyka’s comment thread find her profound, but she isn’t saying anything I haven’t already heard in my first year Women’s Studies or African-American studies classes.

I wrote about something similar there
Can you link to it?

Oh, and as for Ilyka jumping off her pedestal and coming to the defense of Black people everywhere? I’m not sure where that’s coming from. Are White folks not allowed to be offended by harmful racial stereotypes anymore? Are critiques of the use of racial stereotypes only valid when they come from people of color?

My point is this: Both Sarah and Ilyka are appropriating the black experience for different reasons, with different outcomes. Why is more acceptable for one, but not the other? Sarah feels that having a Mammy thimble is comical and not offensive. In that way, she’s saying that the black experience as it applies to early century racism is something she feels comfortable poking fun at, or at least adapting into a facet of her humor. So IN THAT WAY, she’s taking on aspects of the black experience - comfort or discomfort with racist figures - and making it her own.

Ilyka feels the need to deflect her personal position of white privilege, spending her time not only pointing out injustice, but SPEAKING FROM A PLACE OF BLACK EXPERIENCE THAT SHE DOESN’T HAVE. In this way, she’s appropriating the black experience just as much as Sarah. Ilyka feels comfortable speaking from her white privileged background (and it is my contention that if you grow up white in America, no matter what your financial background is you are privileged) about the pressing black issues. In my eyes, she’s appropriating the black experience just as much as Sarah.

I’ve poked around your site. We have a TON of things in common, as I, too, am a womanist, feminist, punk (though I don’t tend to identify as such any longer). I’d even link you to my blog if I didn’t feel like you’d rip my fucking face off in the comments. I think that we just disagree about the principles of this situation, rather than the situation itself.

I realize that my style is snarky, and yes I can be cruel at times. I fully admit that. But really, I’m trying to get at why you are so upset here. I go out of my way to say “look folks, I’m not saying that Sarah is a capital-R racist.” I’m just saying that her Mammy thing is offensive and the folks trying to excuse it are offensive to me. I DON”T think Sarah is a capital-
R racist! I’m quite sure that were we to meet, I’d get along with her. Hell, we probably like the same damn hipster indie-rock bands. Trust me. I’m a Black punk rocker (ok, former punk rocker. I’m way too old to be a punk anymore). I’ve been around the serious neo-nazi skinheads. I know who my enemies are. They tend to have swastika tattoos. I’ve always criticized shit that I find racially insensitive, even when it comes from my allies. Spend some time looking around this blog. I’m also pro-Womanist/Feminist. You think I haven’t had women call me out on sexist shit that I’ve said and done? You’d be wrong if you did, ’cause I’ve done and said some stupid ass sexist shit in my day, and folks (women and men) were right to call me on it. Does it hurt to hear that? Yes. But I needed to hear it and I’d like to think that I’m a better person for hearing it.

So really? How does any of this translate into me or anyone else trying to crucify her?

Ok, that wasn’t entirely clear to me, but I’m willing to believe that’s what you meant.

Moving on.

Um, strawman for what? The whole point is that these types of “jokes” are not funny. Really, that’s it. I have no interest in “shredding” Sarah or anyone else for that matter. And please. Spare me this “poor Sarah” bullshit. You wanna know about cruelty, go read Harriet’s Daughter.

It’s funny that you mention Racialicious, because I wrote about something similar there. I place the apologetics for these Emancipita things in the same category as the apologetics for people like Sarah Silverman. My position is consistent. Even when I’m writing at places with “journalistic style and integrity.”

It’s clear to me that you and the rest of the commenters are looking for a straw man, and you’ve found it in Sarah. No one in these comment threads is being rational about accepting Sarah’s apology - you’re using it to continue your chorus of “But we’re RIGHT! and you’re WRONG!” How mature is it to look an apology in the eye and still feel the need to pick at the issue like a dog with a bone? Fuck, let it go.

I realize that these are personal blogs and neither of you approaches these racial matters with the journalistic style and integrity of, say, Racialicious. But you only succeed in making yourselves look like heathens with your persistant shredding of this girl. She was WRONG - she admitted FAULT - be the bigger person and let it die. Do you really think Sarah will walk away from this not thinking in the future about her actions? Be glad that, despite the cruelty of your methods, you succeeded in bringing attention to the glaring issues of race relations in this country today to one more naive white person.

Stop talking just to hear yourselves talk.

And again - I find it comical and offensive that you are all so comfortable allowing a white woman to come to the defense of black people everywhere, jumping “off her pedestal” to save little old us. Oh Ilyka, what would we DO without you?

You do know that you’re on a Black person’s blog, right? You just accused me of appropriating my own experience and turning it into “their own cause”?

Bwahahahahahaha!

Who said anything about collecting? Well, actually Harriet’s Daughter, another BLACK woman, brought it up in her post, and it’s been pretty much agreed that the ownership of such items in itself is not the problem. It’s how you present said ownership that is the problem. This has nothing to do with collecting and everything to do with playing into hurtful stereotypes for shits and giggles. No one said anything about racism being a “hip trend,” either. This is Racism 101 stuff and you’re not on a Racism 101 blog, so I suggest you take this outrage of yours elsewhere because I’m not buying it for a minute.

And really? You’re more offended by Ilyka? I’m not sure what to make of that.

I’m seriously bothered by the reference here that being racist is a “hip trend”, particularly in a society where “hip” cultural appropriation goes completely without protest. I’m more offended that Ilyka felt the need to post about Sarah at all than I am at what Sarah posted.

You’re all jumping up Sarah’s asscrack and punishing her for her actions, yet you idly sit by and let countless white people tell you how offended you should be by her! Am I, a black woman, INSANE to see this?! Why is there no ire over the fact that what we have here are several white people appropriating the black experience and turning it into their own cause?

If you’ll pardon the cheesiness of my quoting it, in Neal Stephenson’s Cryptonomicon, Enoch Root explains that he prefers the German term that he translates as “morphine-seeky” to the English word “addict” because (I’m quoting from memory, so this may not be verbatim) “it’s an adjective that modifies Bobby Shaftoe instead of a noun that obliterates him.”

If “racist” is an adjective, then it’s something a person can be, to varying degrees, among however many other things he or she is. If it’s a noun, then it’s something he or she either is, and is fully, or isn’t at all. And if “a racist” is a bad thing to be, and it’s a noun, then of course we’re going to react angrily and defensively to any suggestion that we’re somewhat racist, because the middle ground’s been erased.